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 Post subject: Re: 30 col winning move (theoretically)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:44 am 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
now i guess that double dd idea has a more chance to have tayos cry out louder.

yeah, the gap between the time the hyper cappers land and the time the next reinforcement lands needs to be minimal or it is 2v3 until then, unless other side also goes single fast bc from pos girl guy.

this might sound pretty good to try.


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 Post subject: Re: 30 col winning move (theoretically)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:55 pm 
Demon
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Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:31 pm
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Plus, once you get about 4+ DDs, they usually can kill just about anything at a good rate.

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 Post subject: Re: 30 col winning move (theoretically)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:48 am 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
i guess some people did the dd move, but since they aint gonna write anything... i dunno how its executed.

and besides, i have another idea for a variant.

pos1 - DF (double frig) guy, pos2 - SF (single frig, wow it sounds like something else :roll:) guy, pos3 - TDO (triple dd omfg) guy.

TDO starts out with a res mod like every other million games and go 2 cols primary patch, 2cols and a mob on team's 4th patch.

DF and SF gets 2 cols in primary patch and 2 cols on team's 4th patch, makes a scout and give cc to TDO and get a cap fac on ms.

When TDO finishes res mod, TDO returns cc back to both and SF/DF gives ms to TDO. TDO passes cc to DF and starts dd res and advanced res on the ms with cap fac and a cap fac on own ms. SF gives 6 cols to TDO.

DF and SF starts going frig mod/mob and torps. then DF makes hyper mod. jump 3 torps at somewhere near 4 min.

TDO makes a mob having 16 cols and makes triple dd.

when arm is done, DF passes a cc to TDO, TDO pass it to SF, SF passes other cc to TDO, TDO passes it to DF, DF passes other cc to TDO, TDO gives it back, so TDO goesn't have to give away ms to get advanced frig capability to both.

someone with ru gets grav and cloak. and everyone jump.

---

very theoretical, dunno where the choke point is, but should be something close.


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 Post subject: Re: 30 col winning move (theoretically)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:10 am 
Demon

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:40 pm
Posts: 28
TDO = holy shit

sounds like a good strat, lets test it plx ^^

btw where have you been Hid, haven't seen you ingame in awhile


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 Post subject: Re: 30 col winning move (theoretically)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:40 am 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
bah, not playing for 2 days, im MIA...
ok fine, back in the days, if someone was missing for a day, he was supposed to be dead...

if above all goes well (but i guess theres 1 or 2 problems), it should be

- triple 4 min torp (should lag, since it includes passing ships)
- 7min triple hypercap with triple dd

IF things go well...
and TDO queue up improved ms manufacture and level 2 dd hull (forget level 2 speed) and sell arm and off it goes.

but once again, double hyper torp and quad fighter pwns =p more or less.

but i remember fastest double dd would be just about same as hypercappers, and if 6 ships land to pump out 6 flaks and 3 dd down at pos 2 secondary patch, i can see people calling 'gg'. just protect mods, if own base gets raped, just pump cols down on their patches and pick up their dead cc debris :lol:

there would be 6 dd even for fastest bestest craziest bc rush from other side. which means typically theres 9 dd when someone pops out a bc.

And like always with these kind of extreme strats, 1 guy (SF guy) can give out 3k ru to DF guy and all his ships at start of game and just quit to make things look simpler. so DF guy becomes TF guy and just does both the work, except it should include less swapping troubles with smoother ru flow between them.


Last edited by Hideki on Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 30 col winning move (theoretically)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:17 pm 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
got to semi usable state with cloaked using 2 pc at once.

and going triple torp is gay, so double torp and save 1200 ru is much better.
we even went 8 cols each, 24 col omfg gayness and it semi did good, saving for 6 extra cols and a mob but i gave up on level 2 dd hull in that case. but when i think about it i should give up on speed than level 2, since dd doesnt have to run off marines :lol:

--- the build ---

TDO goes single patch 2 cols res mod from start.
SF/DF goes 2 cols and a scout and a cap fac. when cols are out, pass cc to TDO.

when res mod is done, TDO passes cc back to them and recieve ms in place and pass own cc to DF. start a cap fac on own ms and dd res and advanced res mod.

SF/DF gets a single frig mod and a torp.
DF gets a hyper mod and those 2 torps jump at near 4 min.

when cap fac and dd res complete, TDO makes triple dd and moves ms at the mid of 3 primary patches.
SF gets a single mob and pass 4 cols to TDO.
DF gets double mob and deploy them.

when arm completes, let DF pass a cc to TDO. TDO pass it to SF. SF passes own cc to TDO. TDO passes it to DF. DF passes the other cc to TDO, TDO returns it.

SF/DF goes to stack frigs of choice, but typically not ions.
TDO gets a cloak mod.

dd actually completes before jump, so, stack them up with a mob or something in between.

TDO now queues, improved manufacture, level 1 hull and level 1 speed (or try completing level 1 hull early and queue up level 2 and forget speed completely) and sell arm right away. and jump.

when cloak mod completes, TDO sells res mod.
SF/DF has to pause a frig for a moment and get ru for jump and sell hyper mod right away.
DF should get grav asap when possible.

if all goes well, 9 min, followed by double 4 min torp, there are 6 dd and a dozen frigs to make random clanners call for a cheat.

--- trivial stuff... ---

when u let go of 4 cols and a cc, u can do everything alone by having 2 guys pass everything with triple dd and double frig pump and win against 3 randoms alone...

--- some thought ---

cant SF just go fighters and let DF do double torp by SF donating ru to DF? since they will definately have fighter and bombers... and its way easier/cheaper to get ints, not to mention process becomes much easier. would even manage to stop other side's hyper torp, if it isnt for their fighter support.

and as always, if other side has good grav and fighter mod for bombers, then just sell torp and it saves so much.


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 Post subject: Re: 30 col winning move (theoretically)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:56 pm 
Evil Soul

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:58 pm
Posts: 124
I'd like to lab this tripple dd some more to see if we can do anything better w/ it. Also looking at your revised post, at first I liked the idea of SF guy getting fighters instead of frigs. Cause i thought if they torp us, we can get bombers quick - but on second thought, we could just use our torps to kill their hyper-torps instead... Also fighters cost money, and in this build we seem to have 0ru. Flak are cheaper are more effective than int. So i really don't see this helping much as i'd rather just get 2 more flak by 7 mins when we jump than some 6-8int. Its cheaper and just as effective. Part of hypercaping is getting ahead of your opponent by skipping the swarm.

But at this point it has a lot of disadvantages to double dd-
Basically after those labs I think the tripple dd, 6x hypercap just sounds cool and double dd, 6x hypercap smokes it.
Reasons for this are:
1. Even if we only do two torps in the tripple dd, ru is still gonna be way laggy. In the double dd, you have one less ship building dd's so you have some 4k more ru for adv, jumping, grav and cloak.
2. We didn't really have ru to expand to 30colls on 4 patches, w/ out getting 1 min slow torps and really slow dd research so we had to do only 24 colls.
3. No lv2 dd hull in the tripple dd. In the double dd you get 30 colls total so you can easily upgrade those dd to lv2 hull and get 30% more heath than lv1 hull. Which means even though you have 4 dd's when you jump (and you'll get these dd about 1min faster in the double dd), they will have the health of 6dd's.
4. In tripple dd, the dd guy has to jump in w/ little flak support. I don't see us getting any more than 6flak to jump in w/ at 7mins. W/ double dd you get 8flak after the jump.
5. Flexibilty, only having 3 frig mods kinda slows your ability to pump torp if opponents go lazer.
6. Plus in the double dd, the adv is on a cc so it can easily be passed w/out having to wait for a dd to finish on an ms.
7. If they try to go frigs were gonna own them w/ double dd anyways, but if they try to get a fast 10min bc, having more ions would be best since bc's only attack ions at 50% damage.

Double dd just worked way slicker on basically the first try in the lab me Ao, and Finger did. But i'd like to do some more labing on tripple dd before i write up double dd.

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 Post subject: Re: 30 col winning move (theoretically)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:16 am 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
i think fighters are better since,

- without fighter mod, if they torp, u cant torp back and torps even run off other torps and take a while to kill
- u dont have to wait for arm and swapping madness to get those fighters up.
- u dont get roaming bombers to hunt base mobs

every ship costs money, and u can control how many fighters u get to save some ru.
and just get some double flaks along with fighters and that'll pwn their fighters good.

DF guy still gets flak and whatnot, and SF can just get some additional quicker moving help.
really swarm is what bugs every big plans. so, dunno how skipping is gonna make it much better.

1) was the ru that laggy? we never did double torping instead of triple torping, with 1.2k ru more, i think we somehow made it good.

2) yeah, but if it works that way, who cares.

3) like i wrote, maybe drop speed and get hull. speed isnt that important when eating up their base.

4) well, can u write the double dd one? no one likes to share their result...

5) yes lasers are bad, quad lasers gonna surely freak things up. all F guys better go pulsors. and just hope the other guy on other side doesnt go bombers. but still, the dd would be unstoppable for them.

yeah... why doesnt anyone write a single damn...


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 Post subject: Re: 30 col winning move (theoretically)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:26 am 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
version 1.5 - after 4 labs

changes : 10 cols each, double torp, cc walk instead of hyper and fighter instead of frig out of SF.
DF pos1, TDO pos2, SF pos3.

DF/SF(now single fighter) - ms : cap fac, 1 scout 1 col. cc : 3 cols. pass cc when cols are out, recieve it back and give ms in return. SF moves cc to second patch.

TDO - res mod, do the above transfers, give cc to DF.

SF gives 1 col to DF 3 cols to TDO and 500 ru to TDO. get fighter mod and double mobs, put them on own 2 patches.
keep passing ru to DF when possible.

DF gets double frig mod with 2 torps and get grav asap with ru donated from SF.

TDO gets a hyper mod, cap fac and advanced res.

DF hypers torps and start walking cc with SF's cc. DF gets a cloak as well and starts getting own advanced res.

TDO gathers ms with dd stacked waits till enough ru, jump.

do the rest of owning.


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 Post subject: Re: 30 col winning move (theoretically)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:08 am 
Evil Soul

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:58 pm
Posts: 124
This pwns btw, better than double dd hypercap imho after labs.

TDO guy Notes:
Origional ms build: res mod>capfac>hypmod
Start dd res just before hypmod starts so ru don't lag on hypermod. Get dd hull1, then imp manufacturing and que dd lv2 hull on pause. Then sell adv after unlocking adv frigs for FG. Get a cloak on center ms and jump when you have 4 dd qued.

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