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 Post subject: some general tactics
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:38 am 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
this doesn't look anything too fresh or surprising but i figured i did it somewhat smooth, so thought of just writing it...

did this in a medium sized map on 3v3 and it will probably only work in 3v3 because it involves getting bc.

with at least 2 higs in team (including yourself) you will start by getting a cap fac on ms and other hig goes to get a res mod. at the same time going around 13-15 cols. i did this with just 15 cols the whole game, so, going 13 and adding a few later should work. and get some fighters off from cc for the moment.

when the cap fac is done the res mod should be done at same time, recieve it and start dd research and give it back then pass the cc to the other hig for once and get it back so all the mods are unlocked. now just start going dd. probably a mob in the primary patch is a good idea and let other hig get arm like a typical process, so he goes double advanced frigs. and start getting hyper mod on cc.

you would have a decent early dd with fighter support (best with 3rd guy being vaygr and does emp and all that swarm support) and when the other hig gets an advanced res mod, borrow it for just a second, to queue up bc research and improved sy manufacture and return it. you will probably have quite plenty ru only needing to upgrade inties for a moment or dd hull 1 on top of that without any res mods. (maybe just ask for grav to team mate) so sy can kinda pop out with much less ru trouble.

then onwards, just keep pumping dd and inties (or swap to pulsor or frig at any moment) and start getting bc on the sy. with just 15 cols with early dd and good fighter support, you can actually add a bc production in it, which kinda worked nicely in one game i just came up (or reinvented as people might want to put it ;) ) with this in a random fassion...

to note, when bc was about out, i sold my cc with all mods retired, so i could get enough ru for the level 2 hull. ask to team mate to borrow advanced res to start queueing up bc upgrade. you could pass sy before building anything to unlock the cloak mod. i built a res mod myself on sy in that game, which was kinda waste just to get a cloak mod since i was already building bc and couldnt pass the sy.

but when i think about it, going double dd plus sy is kinda killer imo... if the map isn't too small for plat/fighter rush.


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 Post subject: Re: some general tactics
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:28 pm 
Evil Soul

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:58 pm
Posts: 124
Sounds like my favorite kinda strategy, build just enough int to hold off their swarm while squeezing out bigger ships than them on a tight map.

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 Post subject: Re: some general tactics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:46 am 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
also, there's one move i try not to do, coz it looks quite dirty to me... but
when u're vaygr having some amount of scouts... u can just go emp and bust enemy cols constantly and since vay scout is very fast, it rarely gets killed if u move it proper and bring it back...

dunno, how effective it may be if u make a dozen emp and keep busting every patch every 30 seconds... and other side literally gets VERY little ru.


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 Post subject: Re: some general tactics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:35 am 
Evil Soul

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:58 pm
Posts: 124
Hid you should really lab this yourself to see how badly this works, its like hypertorping and forgetting to have your torp attack colls, its just that bad. Colls that are on asteriods keep harvesting even after they've been emp'ed. So only like 2 colls that happen to be moving from asteriod to unload ru will actually get halted for a whoping 20 seconds.

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 Post subject: Re: some general tactics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:38 am 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
so... just target at the col harvesting right then... and by the time scouts emp blow, they're somewhere else than attached on rocks and unloading takes just a second or so, so unless they are on harvest, it still works, and i mean 14 hig scouts at 720 speed with constant emp should make a difference... but im too awkward to do it against live humans since it sounds slightly dirty :roll:

and how long was the harvesting cycle? 30 sec? which means, 1 blow on it, if done proper, will take away 2/3 of 200 ru away and if lucky to catch a few more cols around it, it'll be about 400 ru damage per bust... if calculation looks good, i wonder how dirty this can be. 25 times of it will make a 10k difference, and with 7 scouts per round, i dont think it takes any long to make a whopping dirty silly strat, but i never tried... and even losing that single scout is still worth 50 ru damage on other side, and im sure they cant take down every single scout.


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 Post subject: Re: some general tactics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:25 pm 
Evil Soul

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:58 pm
Posts: 124
Collection cycle takes 50 seconds. If you blow emp at a patch not all colls will fall in emp range so maybe 5 at best get hit. Emp effect lasts for 20 seconds, but if say half of those colls are still on asteriods they will continue to harvest. So average effect will only be 10seconds. 5colls*10secons idle = 1 coll idle for 50seconds = 1 collection cycle = 200 ru damage per attack.

Or i could just get say one lone torp to run colls of their patches for say a 50seconds. That would be 8colls*50 seconds idle = 8colls * 200ru each = 1600ru lost by enemy. After subtracting the torp costs of 700, thats still a advantage of 900ru you'll be gaining.

I can't imagine too many people would let you just keep blowing emp at the colls before getting flak or some int to blow up scouts real quick. All you'd have to do it keep 2 int on each patch, attack the scouts before they get to the patch. Scouts could either try emping my int and probably miss, or lose half of the scouts trying to emp some collectors. Yes 720 is fast, but if you attack colls your moving right past my defenses which can easily shoot at you for a while. Also its rediculously easy to dodge hiig emp w/ good int micro.

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 Post subject: Re: some general tactics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:32 pm 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
well, lets say its 200 a blow... 6 patches at once, thats 1.2k, and if scouts come from every angle not just straight in to get flak and ints pwn it, but then u need flak on every patch which is like 6 * 700 ru and ints are scattered for that.

and u cant micro cols to dodge emp... at least not after u realize scout was coming from below the patch at faster than a probe's speed.

doing it 5 times, thats 6k ru... i guess your team just earned level 2 hull bc + 2 fct...


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 Post subject: Re: some general tactics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:44 pm 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:42 am
Posts: 24
Does a EMPed Refinery still dock Colls?


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 Post subject: Re: some general tactics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:29 pm 
Evil Soul

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:58 pm
Posts: 124
To emp 6 pathes you will need atleast 12scouts, 2 for each patch. 12*350ru = 4200ru on scouts + 1500ru on emp = 5700 ru on 720 emp scouts. Now lets say you miraculously emped all 6 of my patches 5 times without losing a single scout to cause me a 6k slowdown in ru collection. Congrats, you've now successfully spent 5700 on shiney scouts that have caused me 6000 in ru slowdowns. Bravo your 300 dollars ahead of me now. :lol:

Unimportant Thoughts: I really encourage you too lab this to see just how bad 720 scouts are in action. All its gonna take is leaving 2 int at each patch to engadge your 2 scouts whenever then try to attack. You'll have no choice but to try emping my int, or lose too many scout units to emp colls.

If you went with 4 emp scouts per patch this int defense wouln't work. But then i'd simply get 1 emp scout of my own - our scouts would emp each other and then my int would come in and trash your scouts. (Now if you had time to completely ignore your build and have all 4 scouts microed to come from different directions at colls. Then i'd probably just wait till they all approached my patch, let them emp my patch, and then when all 4 scouts are together by patch send in my 1 emp scout + some int.)


I really hate saying 'this strat sux, cause xy&z might happen' - but in this case: THIS STRAT SUX! REALLY I MEAN IT! :lol: Even if i just sit back, ignore your scouts and do nothing about them I'll probably still win cause i'll have atleast some kind of attack units while your building up some silly massive scout army. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: some general tactics
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:24 am 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
alright lol, if u really think it stinks ballz like a homeless gay in the suburban area, and scouts also can work vs fighters later on, i guess i will do some testing.


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