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 Post subject: Re: Complete Rock/Paper/Scissors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:02 am 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
dunno, just saying stuff.

i usually don't lose against those rushes, although i enjoy getting rushed (but fighter rush tends to succeed alot), since it makes the game fun and more tense than play like 'im a newb no attack first 10 min' game which kinda happens often.

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just trying to follow your enemy, countering every ship they build


thats what i actually do most games though. (unless you mean follow as literally following ships to some location.)
scout, if they go big, i tell team in the back pos to get big, if they get frig mod early, i try to get grav, tell someone to get bombers, if i see fighter mods, i go fighters with low amount of cols(if not cb size), if they go vette mods, i get missiles etc, unless of course if the team has a specific plan.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete Rock/Paper/Scissors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:52 pm 
Biting dog

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 44
Thanks guys i think i got what i need. good post cloked.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete Rock/Paper/Scissors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:09 pm 
Biting dog

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:40 am
Posts: 69
Now that you got this nest buzzing, why not and go all the way and start describing the units, what they do, and how to use them. Who knows, maybe someone else will find the info usefull. I'll start, pleaze feel free to add to it.

Let's start with Hiigaran's most basic strike class unit:
THE HIIGARAN SCOUT
On any map you are playing, except when you absolutely need to save resources and decide to rely on teammates, it should be the first unit you build. They are your mobile scouting party and will allow you to see what modules will enemy build and how to react to them. The scouts have smaller sensor range than probes and are considerably slower, but are much more difficult to kill as they will outrun enemy fighters until the fighters get level 2 speed. Scouts are also a very good choice for killing enemy probes if you're not getting early fighters.

As the game progresses, if you don't lose your first scout, you will most likely end up retiring it and getting a better unit, as hiigaran scouts are really not good at anything else. They have same strength EMP ability as their Vaygr counterpart, but it is more expensive to research and they are much less accurate with it and very rarely used for that purpose.

One other posibility when you will find hiigaran scouts useful is when you are looking for enemy ships, but can't find them using normal scouting or probing. This usually happens at the end of the games when a stubborn opponent will refuse to die and jump away to hide in some corner of the map. Research Enhanced Sensors and then use the ping ability on your scout squadron; this will reveal all enemy ships on the entire map, provided that they are not cloaked. Enemy non-capital ships will also be hidden from ping if they are located inside a dust cloud or inside 5 or more distortion fields.

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Last edited by CPU1 on Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete Rock/Paper/Scissors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:31 pm 
Biting dog

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:40 am
Posts: 69
THE HIIGARAN INTERCEPTOR
The interceptors specialize in killing all of the same class units : scouts, interceptors, assault crafts, bombers, and lance fighters. Interceptor rushes are very common on small and some medium maps because they are able to kill collectors quickly, which is their primary role after they eliminate all enemy fighters. It is always preferable to use them near friendly capital ships, because of the quick access to docking points, but if you happen to start a fight on the enemy territory, always issue a dock command before a squadron gets destroyed, so that you will not have to replace it. Most common technique is to issue a dock command at or after a squadron gets to 50% health.
Interceptors are somewhat vulnerable to massed hull and kinetic guns, especially if fire control towers are involved, so prolong fights around a large number of capital ships are not recommended.
Both interceptors' speed upgrades are very important in their fighting performance, as well as their survivability, so you should research those as soon as you have resources to do so.

Best counters to interceptors from the other classes are gun platforms and flack frigates. If you have a large number of fighters and a small number of enemy gun plats, you can keep killing collectors or even the plats themselves in the area, but if enemy fighters get involved it's best to pull away from the plats and if possible lead enemy fighters to friendly gun plats. Flack frigates absolutely decimate fighters, and you really don't want to be using interceptors on those; only 6 flacks will tear up through your entire fighter swarm in very short amount of time if you don't pull away. Lead enemy fighters to friendly flacks and hope the enemy doesn't notice them until it's too late.
Other counters include rarely built vaygr assault frigates, even more rarely built gunships, both of which perform pretty much like mobile gun plats, and missile corvettes. It is best to avoid assault frigs, but the gunships and missile corvettes can be successfully engaged by interceptors, so long as you have a decent squad number advantage. Because the interceptors have a higher speed, you can safely pull away and dock damaged squads and then return them to battle, thus not taking any major losses. Keep in mind that missile corvettes shoot homing missiles, which rarely miss, so don't wait until your squad gets into the yellow health and have less chances of making out of the fight alive.

Once the fight starts, interceptors will almost never sit back uninvolved, there will always be a good task for them. If all enemy fighters are dead, it's often best to try and take out enemy collectors using your own fighters. Sometimes you will be in a need to take out an enemy module, fighters in numbers do a decent job here; shipyard and mothership capital ship facilities are always good targets, as well as nearby frigate facilities. Killing engines will stop the destroyers while making them vulnerable to marines, and it will also stop fleeing carriers and advancing battlecruisers, so it makes another good target for the interceptors. Taking on anything in frigate class or bigger is pretty much a waste of time and you can always find something better to do with your interceptors(exception to this is some stray torpedo frigates going after your collectors).

On the last note, due to interceptors' flexibility and the devastation enemy bombers can cause, very few games can be won after you lose fighter superiority. For this reason, always try to have at least one fighter module and keep interceptors queued so that the losses can be replaced as soon as possible.

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Last edited by CPU1 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete Rock/Paper/Scissors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:11 pm 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
i'll write a small chart on the relations between ships at hw2/ site later.

CPU1 wrote:
they will outrun enemy fighters until the fighters get level 2 speed. Scouts are also a very good choice for killing enemy probes if you're not getting early fighters.


For vaygr scouts, you can still outrun any ships except for the vaygr scout themselves equipped with emp, in that case, you'd be better off just tossing a few probes to reveal everything for 10 seconds before they die, instead of wasting scouts, which is more expensive than 2 probes.

also, when you try to kill a probe near an enemy cap ship, the scouts have a good chance of dieing off ms gun fires... so, better not poke those ones, unless you have multiple scouts.

And about hig scout, if you give the scout to vaygr and vaygr does the fighter speed upgrade, the hig scouts become the fastest moving thing in the entire game (even faster than probes by some good amount), then it becomes almost impossible to kill even with vaygr emp speed 2 scouts, which is quite worth having, when i haven't seen anyone but the xeno bro use them regularly. and if you do that, you don't have to spread the vaygr scouts here and there for scouting, when you need them for emp at the battles.

CPU1 wrote:
inside a dust cloud.


didn't know ping won't reveal stuff in the clouds.

interceptors are also ok at killing cols, if you have more than 5 units without real interruption. which can be used for early rushing when they have not much to counter against. and if you have 8 or more ints, you can knock off a module quite easily as well including engines on capital ships that are running away or coming in. but of course you need to engage fighters as priority instead if they come in.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete Rock/Paper/Scissors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:32 pm 
Biting dog

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:40 am
Posts: 69
Hideki, can you make it somehow so that others(including you) can edit my post to add their info to them, instead of getting a bunch of posts out of order? Say, they could add their nicks followed by their comments to my posts.

Also, I haven't yet talked about vaygr scouts, but you're welcome to start a post about them.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete Rock/Paper/Scissors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:08 pm 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
That really sounds like a time for wiki to me.
I mean, this place has gotten a little too informative for a clan forum in the first place... a forum is too disorganized for information postings.

I probably can't let everyone start edit everyone else's post or it'll be... chaotic. And i don't think i can only let a specific post be editable by random users.
Besides, a forum won't keep a history of an edit, and one newb deleting the whole post and that's a wh00p.

What you people think? I can set one up.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete Rock/Paper/Scissors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:17 pm 
Biting dog

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 44
Do it. I'll make sure it gets linked to the relic wiki


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 Post subject: Re: Complete Rock/Paper/Scissors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:19 pm 
Biting dog

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 44
But in the mean time keep the raw data flowing here. just start new threads for stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete Rock/Paper/Scissors
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:41 am 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
OK.

Here is the wiki.
Right now, it has nothing but you can fill in. (Please categorize contents.)

To know about how to write a wiki page, press the 'Edit this page' on the page you want to edit (don't edit the syntax rule page...) then read the syntax page and start editing.

To make a new page, you have to first make a link to the page in an existing page and click on the link once page is built and start anew there.

If you want to learn and test write a wiki page, use the playground page. You can mess this page up as much as you want.

Right now there is no authentication to the wiki, so literally anyone can edit. But IP is logged and if you do naughty, I'm gonna naughty you back and I can probably identify who is who by seeing IP logged in posts in here too... And every history of an edit is kept, so wiping out a page can be reverted any moment. So, feel free to write as much as you want, you can't be responsible for messing up for unintentional mistakes.


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