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 Post subject: Mixing support craft
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:15 pm 
Biting dog

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 44
What are the best numbers for mixing support craft like emp scouts with int/ac or command vets with other vets. Like given = player skill which is better 12/2, 11/3, 10/4 int/scout. With vets what is the optimal ratio for command vets mixed with others.


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 Post subject: Re: Mixing support craft
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:25 pm 
Biting dog

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 44
Oh and how useful are command vets when only supporting fighters I.E. whould it be better to have 12 ac and 2 command vets or 12 ac and 2 other vets (missle/laser/gun/pulsar).

Is the difference between having a command vet in the mix with fighters definable. For instance if you put 1 ac squad vs 1 ac squad no support theoreticly they should kill = numbers of each other on one pass. If one side has 1 command vet in the mix what are the effects? Does it improve just accuracy or accuracy and manuverability. In other words if both sides no support killed 3 of the 7 in the squad one one pass does the pressents of a command vet both kill more and survive more with new numbers being 1 side 2 loss other side 4 loss?


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 Post subject: Re: Mixing support craft
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:01 am 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
com vettes definately help, if you go with 12 ints + 2 com vs 14 ints, 12 will win always. but the thing about the comm vette, while good, that it's a single squad, which means, 3 int squad or a single pulsor/missile will screw it in 5 seconds, or a single torpedo will kill it 100%, so, unless you're good at hiding it (which means, if you just move comm vette to a certain position and let it sit still, it's so dead, so, you will order comm vette to follow your own side ships, so it doesn't look like there's one.), they will die so fast. but if you get to hide them well in the flock, you will gain a big advantage. and more than 2 comm vette doesn't change much difference, as far as i have labbed before about fire control tower and comm vette.

emp, this you will always need. vaygr emp tends to be better with accurate shot and faster scout movement (although if you try, hig scout can achieve a faster speed than vaygr, but that's an irregular upgrading method). when vaygr can hold 18 fighters, i usually go with 4 emp 14 fighters. and i always give team mate about 3-4 emp scouts, so they can be individually controlled by other players for more effect.

and if you have 4 emp, do target different ship for every emp, or they will waste 4 emp on a single position, which can be a big difference. fighters/vette/plat/cols can be emp'ed with a single shot from a healthy scout, a frig needs 4 healthy scouts to be emp'ed if emp'ed at almost exact same timing.

busting emp on a flocked ion frig/plat can make a huge difference, if done right, especially against plats, a single proper emp on a 10 stacked ion plat can change alot.

also, talking about support craft, the defense field frigate, often so under estimated, but can make a big difference as well. when the fight is about dd and frigs in a medium sized map where there's no bc (coz bc ion can penetrate defense field. but lasers can also kill it pretty quick too.), it can almost block every ion/dd attack and if you make 2 of those (or even more by passing them to team mate) and turn the shield on one by one, they can make a serious difference. but if one sees a dff, they usually get toasted as a first priority... (and you should if you see one) so, what you do to just win the show, is, put a cc close to the dff, and turn the cloak on. dff becomes invisible from them (unless they're good enough to have proxy (even with cloak turned on to hide it, so no one gets the probe)), they will lose dff out of sight but only the shield until their fleet are really that dead. this cloak tactic also works for marines, since they cloak until they're almost attached on ships, which makes them pretty hard to run away from them. and it also works for comm vette too. make comm vette sit as close to the battle field as possible, while in range of a carrier cloak mod, cloak them, and they won't know why they can't win the swarm fight or dd/ion battle (since comm vette/fct increases fire power too.)

also, while talking about cloak mod, if you make a fighter dock when it's damaged, turn the cloak on the docking ship, and the chasing enemy ships will lose the docking ship, thus making it much more possible for it to dock than getting chased to death at the last moment. but do be warned that if you keep the cloak turned on, the undocking ship will stay still no matter what until you manually target something, so only cloak when ships are about coming to dock.


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 Post subject: Re: Mixing support craft
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:05 am 
Biting dog

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:40 am
Posts: 69
15% improvement to both accuracy and damage per Command corvette or Fire Control Tower; effects are staggering with a max of 40%(which means more than 3 don't add to the effect). The difference between 2 and 3 is less than 8%, but third one is always good to have in case you loose one.

Defense field penetration varies depending on the weapons, for most cases it's 30%, with exception of dd/bc kinetic guns at 50%, and bc main weapons at 100%.

Sounds like ratamaq can really use the Excell spreadsheets provided with Relic tools that will show him any Homeworld 2 stats he needs to know.

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 Post subject: Re: Mixing support craft
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:21 am 
Biting dog

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 44
Yea a stat sheet would be nice. One of the first things I asked for when i stepped online was if HW2 had a bible. hids resource pages has done awsome and nems tools are pretty cool too
but a spred sheet would be nice do any of you have a link?


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 Post subject: Re: Mixing support craft
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:01 am 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
yeah, if someone can extract that data sheet out, i'll have to actually re-check the values on my resource site, since i at least found a serious value mistake in hig bc research time before. and there are a few places i havent filled the values when i made the site before. (like how many seconds it takes for marines to capture a ship for some type of ships)

also i never put the speed difference of researchings having multiple res mod or none.


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 Post subject: Re: Mixing support craft
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:31 am 
Biting dog

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:40 am
Posts: 69
For some reason link to Relic RDN page is not working, seems they took that page down. Use this one to download it, bottom 2 files :

http://www.3dgamers.com/games/homeworld2/downloads/

You will need Excell to view the spreadsheets.

Hideki, your research values are not wrong, they are exactly what the spreadsheet says they should be. The big thing about the default research times is that they are correct when you have zero research modules(funny, isn't it?). I have a hunch that they did it that way due to the formula for the research times, which I already posted at viewtopic.php?f=6&t=27&start=40
So, there's your research speed difference. I think the marine cap speed up calculation is in the same thread, but to get the default cap times, use the Relic spreadsheet.

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 Post subject: Re: Mixing support craft
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:57 am 
Demon

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 375
ah alright... yeah, they prolly put the base value for the formula.
i'll see if i can add the multi res mod research times on the site later.


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